The Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling

[Merctime]

So, I was wondering the other day, and this may in fact be something of a blasphemous post...

What if one were to alter the Dwarf and the Hobbit/Halfling and make them so they function as two differing classes or may multi-class, like the Elf does?

I suppose I should add here that I grew up on B/X, and mostly 1st edition, so this is probably where my heretical viewpoint comes from

But I was toying with the idea: Have a dwarf able to choose to be a single classed fighting man as written, or perhaps a single classed cleric up to 5th, or allow them to choose which to level between each adventure. I thought about allowing those who chose single classes to progress to one level higher (7th fighting man, 6th cleric).

Much the same for the Hobbit/Halfling. Choose single class fighting man (4th level), single class cleric (5th? 6th?), or again like the Elves, swapping between the two after each adventure (again, allowing single classers to go one level higher). Campaigns that use the thief class would (or could) substitute the thief for the cleric in multi-classing like Elves for this race.

Any of you guys try this before? If so, how did it play? Did you have a positive experience with it, or did it not turn out how you intended during play? Just thought it would be a fun thing to discuss.

[ehiker133]

I think the idea has merit.

But I would make one adjustment:

Elf - fighter/mage
Dwarf - fighter/cleric
Halfling - fighter/thief

[Merctime]

I think the idea has merit.

But I would make one adjustment:

Elf - fighter/mage
Dwarf - fighter/cleric
Halfling - fighter/thief

You betcha! And I generally agree with the Halfling adjustment. I just added the option for cleric for that race to consider those games not using the thief class.

[ehiker133]

Figured that. I tend to ignore those people. Haha!

Why should elves have all the fun, right? I'll put this idea into action should I ever get around to running something...

Also makes it easier to run a smaller group, of which I am a fan. Get an elf, a dwarf, and a halfling and you have your bases covered!

[Idrahil]

In my campaign, there are no elves so halflings became the fighter/mage class. Weird I know but my idea is that eventually halflings will evolve to become "Grays". I have even tinkered with paladins for humans being a fighter/cleric but eventually didn't like what I came up with.

[Merctime]

In my campaign, there are no elves so halflings became the fighter/mage class. Weird I know but my idea is that eventually halflings will evolve to become "Grays".

This is so ridiculously awesome I can't stand it! I immediately got some intriguing insight as to the possible flavor and theme of your game. I love the weird-science bent just as much as the 'common' D&D game, personally. Care to elaborate a little further, Iradhil?

But on topic, how did you find another demi-human race using this mechanic in game? What were your level constraints, if any?

[waysoftheearth]

But I was toying with the idea: Have a dwarf able to choose to be a single classed fighting man as written, or perhaps a single classed cleric up to 5th, or allow them to choose which to level between each adventure. I thought about allowing those who chose single classes to progress to one level higher (7th fighting man, 6th cleric).

Much the same for the Hobbit/Halfling. Choose single class fighting man (4th level), single class cleric (5th? 6th?), or again like the Elves, swapping between the two after each adventure (again, allowing single classers to go one level higher). Campaigns that use the thief class would (or could) substitute the thief for the cleric in multi-classing like Elves for this race.

The by-the-book dual-classing rules virtually imply as much. With no fiddling whatsoever the rules for changing class favor non-humans (not just elves!), so right out of the box you can get:

Elf: Fighter/M-U, Fighter/thief, M-U/thief,
Dwarf: Fighter/Thief,
Halfling: Fighter/Thief.

What we're really adding to the mix is the possibility of Dwarfs additionally selecting the cleric class, and thereby having the additional dual classed options:

Dwarf: fighter/cleric, and fighter/thief. A cleric/thief would not be allowed due to alignment constraints, but an anti-cleric/thief might be possible.

The notion of the dwarf cleric seems rather popular and, if it fits your game setting, I don't see why not. The general thinking seems to be that Dwarfs should probably be limited to the 5th level as clerics (being less than their 6th level limit as fighters) or, at most, to the 7th level (which would allow them 4th level, but not 5th level, cleric spells).

I really like to see someone develop a Dwarf cleric's "turning" table versus creatures of Earth rather than undead... IMHO something like that would lend the dwarf cleric the unique flavor it keenly deserves.

[Merctime]

I really like to see someone develop a Dwarf cleric's "turning" table versus creatures of Earth rather than undead... IMHO something like that would lend the dwarf cleric the unique flavor it keenly deserves.

All of these points were excellent, but I loved this one. Something that's never even crossed my mind. Very interesting idea!

Lately I've been considering not using the thief, but I suppose it's not really a big deal to use that class. I guess my rational has been due to never really having played in the style of OD&D at the table. Well, sort of not. We still did try to verbally negotiate traps and things, but ended up letting the dice do the talking when we were rushed or didn't want to be bothered by it. I had the idea that not including the thief would help curb that in game later on.

So, that brought about the thought regarding expanding the other two races as I wrote above. However, I still like the thief as written in DD. The D6 mechanic is by far preferable to me than the percentages, even if they might bring out the 'can't be bothered' situation I talked about a second ago. Eh, it's all in fun, right?

All that said, I might still include the thief, yet still give Dwarves the option of selecting from Fighting Man/Cleric or Fighting man/Thief upon creation, with Hobbits defaulting to Fighting man/Thieves.

Thanks for the discussion on it guys

[Idrahil]

In my campaign, there are no elves so halflings became the fighter/mage class. Weird I know but my idea is that eventually halflings will evolve to become "Grays".

This is so ridiculously awesome I can't stand it! I immediately got some intriguing insight as to the possible flavor and theme of your game. I love the weird-science bent just as much as the 'common' D&D game, personally. Care to elaborate a little further, Iradhil?

But on topic, how did you find another demi-human race using this mechanic in game? What were your level constraints, if any?

Heya,

Well......in my campaign world, there are elves but they are hidden and unreachable at the present time. The following takes place over the course of about 60,000 years:

The world had progressed to a high technology level where interstellar travel would have eventually happened. However, the world was decadent and violent and destroyed its civilization in a terrible war. Then survivors had to contend with a massive army or orcs, goblins, ogres etc allied with a group of evil magic-users referred to as "The Cult of the Moon" that employ various insects (think beetles the size of foot balls all the way up to stuff like in Starship Troopers).

The entire world fell into a terrible dark age barely equal to the Bronze Age. Life is terrible and elves leave to a hidden island (like in Middle Earth).

Eventually, a Warlord rises and leads some of the lawful humans, dwarfs and halflings on a journey across the world an establishes a kingdom that prospers and is separated from the evil races...(there's more to the story and I could go on and on and on)

So, what the players have encountered so far are statues from the "Golden Age" and a sterile lab that housed "talking rings" (like in The Time Machine) and a great telescope. They have also encountered and made use of teleporters that have to be charged with a wand of lightning of lightning bolt spell. A halfling "Sage" uses an ancient diagnostic device to "determine the use of magic items". No one knows of the device as it is carefully protected by the sage's family and has been passed down for generations ensuring the family always has a spot in court.

I am planning on introducing technology in a slightly greater scale next campaign. Our current one is wrapping up in 1 or 2 more sessions and the next one takes place in the "Old World" as the kingdom will try its hand at reclaiming the old lands.

As for the halflings, they are exactly like the "by the book" elves of Delving Deeper. level 4 Fighter, level 8 magic-user. Some of the Moon Cult halflings have already developed ESP and a weak form of telekinesis (in game terms they can communicate via thought and can use telekinesis to move around things lighter than 10 lbs when ever they want).