Demi-human dual-classed PCs

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Post by sully » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:27 pm

Demi-human dual-classed PCs

On p. 15, it says that non-human characters are exempt from ability score requirements as related to changing classes.

Does this mean that, to name but one example, Dorgan the Dwarf could reach 6th level as a Fighter, be unable to advance further, and then switch to Thief?
Thanis [Stealthy Hero, MV 12′′, AC 7, HD 4, hp 16, FC 4 men/hero, SV F4, N]. Hooded cloak, padded armor, sword, longbow +1 & quiver of arrows, dagger.

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Post by ehiker133 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:10 pm

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

sully wrote:On p. 15, it says that non-human characters are exempt from ability score requirements as related to changing classes.

Does this mean that, to name but one example, Dorgan the Dwarf could reach 6th level as a Fighter, be unable to advance further, and then switch to Thief?
I believe the limitation is that demi-humans can't change classes. But, if they could, that would be very interesting and I'd like to hear more about what skills/feats/etc. are kept from the first class when such a thing happens (says Desmond, the soon-to-be 4th level fighter that might fair quite well as a thief).
[f=47]Dougal Blackfoot (MV 9", AC 6, Lvl 4, HP 10/10) [/f]
[f=59]Goldwen (Sagacious* Abbess, MV 9′′, AC 6, HD 2+1, HP 9, FC 2 men, SV C3, L][/f]

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Post by sully » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

This is where it would be nice to have clear definitions of terms like "non-humans" and "man-types".

The term "demi-human" doesn't appear at all in the Heroes & Magic book.

The bad news for Dorgan, I just noted, is that Thieves can't be Lawful.
Thanis [Stealthy Hero, MV 12′′, AC 7, HD 4, hp 16, FC 4 men/hero, SV F4, N]. Hooded cloak, padded armor, sword, longbow +1 & quiver of arrows, dagger.

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Post by mushgnome » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:37 pm

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

sully wrote:The bad news for Dorgan, I just noted, is that Thieves can't be Lawful.
We have a cursed barrow-blade back at the Manse that will potentially take care of the alignment problem for him.
[f=59]Stern (Strong Hero, MV 9′′, AC 3, HD 4, hp 20, FC 4 men/hero, SV F4, L)[/f]

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Post by ehiker133 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

Hmmm... I guess I never really read that section of the rules closely enough..
CHANGING CLASS

Even if the referee allows class changes, no character can ever change class during an
adventure, and nor can a cleric ever change to a magic-user or vice versa. Human
characters require a minimum score of 16 in the prime requisite of the class they intend
to change to, while non-human characters are exempt from ability score requirements.
A character becomes dual-classed when he changes class for the first time, and thereafter
has the benefits of both classes simultaneously. A cleric is always restricted in his choice
of weaponry, however, and a magic-user (other than an elf, who may act as a magic-user
while wearing magical armor) must always go unarmored. A thief is likewise always
restricted to leather armor.

The player of a dual-classed character must maintain separate experience point totals
for each of his classes. Experience is only ever earned toward one class at a time, as
elected by the player at the beginning of each adventure. A dual-classed character may
“change back” to his original class (for the purpose of allocating experience points),
subject to the above limitations. The more favorable game statistics of both his classes
are used during play.
So that might be a nice thing to consider doing if Desmond, the 4th level Halfling fighter, maxes out his level advancement there. Switch over to thief (have to go back to leather armour, of course) and keeping his 4th level fighter abilities (and hit points?) and then become accomplished at nicking stuff, as well.

For some reason, I've had to try hard to NOT play him as a thief, truth be known. I guess that's just the expectation.
[f=47]Dougal Blackfoot (MV 9", AC 6, Lvl 4, HP 10/10) [/f]
[f=59]Goldwen (Sagacious* Abbess, MV 9′′, AC 6, HD 2+1, HP 9, FC 2 men, SV C3, L][/f]

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Post by waysoftheearth » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:34 am

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

I copied this thread over to the Hinterlands area, because Hinterlands has its own house rules so any answers applicable to Hinterlands may not be relevant/correct in the more general Delving Deeper context...
[f=32]Golgildir the Elf Medium (MV 12", AC 9, HD 1, hp 1/1, AL N) great cloak, lantern; spells: color spray; scrolls: sleep, sleep, charm person
Hirelings: Georges; torch[/f]

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Post by waysoftheearth » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:39 am

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

Under the present house rules there are no racial level limits in Hinterlands.

There are instead racial Hit Die limits, which are adjusted by your constitution score.
Level Limits for Demi-Humans
There are no racial level limits.
There are racial Hit Die limits instead.
Men have at most 8 HD, Dwarfs have at most 6 HD, Elves have at most 5 HD, and Halflings have at most 4 HD.
The HD limit is modified by constitution score.
When maximum HD have been attained further experience levels yield +2 hp (templars and fighting men) or +1 hp (wizards and thieves).
So, Dorgan the Dwarf with 16 constitution can advance to 20th+ level as a fighter, but he will never have more than 7 HD, regardless of which classes he accumulates them from.
[f=32]Golgildir the Elf Medium (MV 12", AC 9, HD 1, hp 1/1, AL N) great cloak, lantern; spells: color spray; scrolls: sleep, sleep, charm person
Hirelings: Georges; torch[/f]

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Post by waysoftheearth » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:48 am

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

What I just posted is the current status quo.

But ( :) ) I have been pondering for a while whether or not to take some of the house rules back a bit closer to the true Delving Deeper rules... mainly so I don't need to maintain so many different rule sets in "working memory" all at once.

IF/WHEN I head this way properly I would firstly tell you all about it, and secondly I would probably use the Greyhawk method of dual-classing. In the Greyhawk version a dual- or multi-classed PC earns XP toward all his classes simultaneously (rather than switching between them), dividing earned XP evenly even when he can no longer advance in a particular class.
[f=32]Golgildir the Elf Medium (MV 12", AC 9, HD 1, hp 1/1, AL N) great cloak, lantern; spells: color spray; scrolls: sleep, sleep, charm person
Hirelings: Georges; torch[/f]

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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:15 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by waysoftheearth » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:49 am

Re: Demi-human dual-classed PCs

mushgnome wrote:We have a cursed barrow-blade back at the Manse that will potentially take care of the alignment problem for him.
:D
[f=32]Golgildir the Elf Medium (MV 12", AC 9, HD 1, hp 1/1, AL N) great cloak, lantern; spells: color spray; scrolls: sleep, sleep, charm person
Hirelings: Georges; torch[/f]

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