The Sleep Spell

[mgtremaine]

From the Gamma Text... Sleep reads

Causes 4-14 normal-types, or 1-6 heroic-types with up to 3+1 hit dice, or 1 heroic-type with up to 4+1 hit dice to fall into a fitful slumber.

The double use of Heroic-Types is odd? The old version made more sense with 3-18 HD affected and any creature above 4HD is immune. Or the longer breaks down in LBB with 2d8 1+1, 2d6 2+1, 1d6 3, and but 1 4...

Hmm...

[waysoftheearth]

Sleep has always been a tricky one to emulate cleanly--the issue being what to do when it's employed against a group of mixed HD creatures?

The earlier DD Ref Rules got around this by saying simply that 3-18 HD of creatures were affected. But this was criticized by some as departing unnecessarily from the 3LBBs.

One thing that the Reliquary (gamma) does differently to previous versions is to talk about who can be affected by spells in terms of "normal" and "heroic" types rather than creatures with X many HD. DD defines normal and heroic explicitly (unlike the 3LBBs!), and these definitions just so happen to line up neatly with the spell descriptions in the 3LBBs. So from there it was a snap to preserve the quaint olde Chainmail terminology without altering the spells significantly. So it's now something of a "DD feature" that it uses the normal/heroic terminology quite prominently.

Of course "sleep" is the odd one out. The original definition of sleep just doesn't line up as neatly as do the other spells.

I was sorely tempted to have sleep simply affect 4-14 normals, period. But that would reduce the utility of the spell somewhat, meaning it could never affect a 4 HD ogre, or hero. That particular problem gnawed at me until I eventually caved and tacked on the versus 3 HD and 4 HD clauses. To be honest, I'm still not 100% happy with it... perhaps I'll revisit it again at two minutes to midnight?

We'll see

[mgtremaine]

It took me a few time to parse it correctly. I think the power level is right. Just typing it out as a comment actually clarified it for me, or at least how I'm going to apply it.

[waysoftheearth]

Please share how you're going to apply sleep @mgremaine... it could be useful to others (including me!)

[mgtremaine]

In the TEOWS game the enemy NPC just lobbed the dreaded sleep spell. So what have taken from the description is the word "target" is key

##### Sleep
(affects: 1 or 4-14 creatures, duration: 3-18 turns, range: 24") Causes 4-14 normal-types, or 1-6 heroic-types with up to 3+1 hit dice, or 1 heroic-type with up to 4+1 hit dice to fall into a fitful slumber. The magic is indiscriminate and must affect the indicated number of creatures beginning with those nearest the target. The magic affects only creatures that normally sleep but no saving throw is allowed.

I'm going go with the die roll being based on the targets "classification" and then it progresses out from the target affecting the indicated number of creatures. But it can not affect a creature of greater "classification" then the target.

Example:
So in my game the target was 1st Level Fighter, which is not considered a normal type so we use the next classification which is 1d6. A 2 was rolled so the 2 fighters fell to the spell. That was lucky the whole party could have gone down.

Example 2:
1 Ogre and 10 goblins meet a Wizard who fires off Sleep. If he targets the Ogre he can put only the Ogre down, if he targets a Goblin he can put down 2d6+2 Goblins but the Ogre will not be affected.

My suggestion would be to change the 2nd tier from Heroic Type to "Non Normal Types" and leave the 3rd Tier Heroic Types.

[waysoftheearth]

I think that's pretty close to "by the book" @mgtremaine; the only difference being that "by the book" (that being the DD Reliquary book) 1st and 2nd level fighters are considered "normal".

The Champions of Zero Edition retro-clone does exactly as you suggest and includes a "verteran" tier, which is sub-heroic but super-normal. However, I don't think DD could ever include this notion "officially" as there is no basis for it in Chainmail or the 3LBBs. But that doesn't mean refs can't use it in their own games


Another option I've often mulled over is to have sleep affect 4-14 normals with no save, or 1-6 heroics who are allowed a saving throw. But this seems to be stretching it even further. Even just affecting 4-14 normals with no save, sleep is still a 1st level magic-user's nuke.

[mgtremaine]

1st and 2nd level fighters are considered "normal".

Shoot, I failed that update.... there it is

##### Normal-Types
Normal-types include all man-types of less than heroic status and all other creatures of similar stature. Collectively these are all creatures with fewer than 3 hit dice.

I was going by Beta and the 1+1 vs 1+2 definition in the Fighter section.

So the characters did really get lucky since it would have been 4 minimum.

[mgtremaine]

Yikes that means 2d6+2 2nd level fighters which could be 2+1 [or 2+3 with good con] 14 x 2+1 = 28+14 worth of HD. Maybe I just house ruled after all.

[waysoftheearth]

Yep, sleep is very dangerous for normals. That's why it's imperative that the referee remembers that it's indiscriminate and must affect the indicated number of subjects--possibly including the caster himself!

But then, even if an entire party of PCs is slept, there's every reason they should be captured for ransom, or for interrogation, or for slavery, or for feasting on later, etc. etc. It's a prime opportunity for the campaign to take an unexpected twist...


FWIW: The "1+1 HD/1+2 HD" boundary appeared in v1 of the DD Ref Rules (Oct 2012). It was corrected to "fewer than 3 HD/3 or more HD" in the v2 of the DD Ref Rules (Mar 2013), and has been that way in every version of DD Reliquary too.

[mgtremaine]

Now you know which printed version is sitting on my desk

I think what I'm going to do is apply the sliding scale that was talked about on odd74. That is I'll have normal start at 1HD and let it progress up to 3HD as a 4to1 ratio to level/HD. So at 8th Superhero normal is 2HD, at 12th it is 3HD. That resolves all the wrong statement I've made in my game but leaves them open to be BTB as monster/characters get tougher.